Wednesday, September 26, 2007

just friends

Tonight, I was asked to put this scenario before you in order to get feedback.

Man: (hangs head) I got turned down by someone. I was interested in her and thought I was going about it the right way, however, through a friend I heard that she was a bit unsure of my intentions. So, I decided to make them known.

Me: And she turned you down?

Man: Well, she sort of freaked out and gave me the "friend" spiel.

Me: (eyes wide) Oh, no. I'm so sorry. ... (pause) ... may I ask how old she was? 19 ... 20?

Man: (a bit nervous ... had I guessed her identity) What?!

Me: (Content with that answer) Well, I only asked because that's the sort of reaction I would have given when I was 19/20.

Me: (continued ...) At that age it wouldn't have mattered how absolutely amazing you are. I would be just so unsure about so many things in life that I'd be more comfortable with not thinking about you in a complex way.

Man: So how should I respond?

Me: Well, when you let your intentions be known you obviously had planned on investing a lot of time and energy into making this relationship go somewhere, yes? Is it worth maintaining a friendship with her when you know there will be no return? You could always stick around and be her pal and bring it up again later ... but if that's too painful for you or you see it as a waste of time, just let her go.

Man: So, I should say (tongue in cheek) "Sorry, your loss."?

Me: Ha ha ... well, to put it more tactfully, you could say ...

How should he respond?


Laura said...

It is indeed the rare 20-year-old who can handle turning a guy down well.

He could either say, "Sure, but I have to let you know that I've recently set up some boundaries about spending alone time with women..." or "You know, if I'm interested in you and you're not interested in me, I think it'll be too awkward for us to spend any (or much) time together."

Honestly, I've given the friend spiel before and didn't mean a word of it, so it's possible this girl really meant "ugh, not a chance, but I have to say something nice about being friends." Or it's possible that she's genuinely annoyed that he asked and wishes things could go back to how they were. Women -- what complicated creatures.

Jonny said...

"good job, well-dressed, good car, etc", thankyou for revealing that it wasn't me.

The man can't do much more if he has let his feeling be known. But he should not go crazy. Just live life normaly. What options are there? Try and keep in touch with a large group of friends.

The girl should never say something she does not mean.

But the girl should be friendly and polite as normal. And the girl should continue to see the boy as a friend in a group setting.

If the boy and girl would not be compatible as a couple, both of them will come to realise this in time given the chance. It is important to give the boy that chance even after he has made the uncomfortable move.

Guys are designed to chase, so running away may not work the way you want it to. Far better to let the guy get to know you and realise for himself that that snorting noise you do when you laugh is not so cute afterall and kind of gets annoying. Who would live with that? He will move on of his own accord, don't get nasty. Your like/dislike of him will change in time anyhow.

John Dekker said...

Exactly the same thing happened to me just the other day.

I don't think I said much in response, and I don't think any response is needed, particularly.

CraigS said...

Girls, I reckon you should can the "just be friends" speech. I don't think many girls really mean it, it's just a polite way of saying "not interested".

What's a better turn-down line than "I just want to be friends"?

He: I have feelings for you...

She: I'm sorry, but I don't feel that way toward you.

Swil said...

I agree with Craig. Weird ;)

It's a well established way of shutting down an already really uncomfortable situation without making it any more painful. Guys know what it means. Girls don't have to spell it out.

If the guy's got any brains (or experience, the two are interchangeable) he'll (faux) happily accept then escape as soon as politely possible.

And there are plenty of emo songs around on this topic for the poor guy to then drown his sorrows in ;)

The big mistake is being one of those morons who pushes the issue ("But WHY wouldn't we work?"). Just put the shovel down and step away from the hole.

The Borg said...

Yeah, "let's be friends" is lame unless you really mean it. Honesty is so much better, like "I don't feel that way about you" or "I feel no emotional connection with you". Reasons like "I'm not over my ex-boyfriend" aren't a good idea because they imply that small sliver of hope that keep eternal optimists going for something that isn't there.

Laura said...

Ha! Swil, brilliant (Swilliant?)

Also, Craig, I recently was on the receiving end of this dialog (twice. huh.), but I didn't play the "friends" card. In the first instance, with someone I knew fairly well, I said that he was a perfectly nice person but that I simply did not have romantic feelings for him, nor did I see any possibility of romantic feelings developing. In the second instance, with a guy I didn't really know at all, I simply said, "No, thanks" to his request for a date.

The "friends" speech is such an overused device in film and television that I think it's almost an automatic response. Sometimes there is an element of truth to it, though.

Angus said...

Well, as a guy who has had to give the "just friends" line a few times... I can honestly say I meant it. It has usually happened when a friend has made her intentions known, and I truly actually want to remain friends.

Of course, girls seem to be consistently better at picking up on subtle clues. More often than not I'd pick up that someone was keen on me, try to distance myself a bit, and they'd pick up on the hint. We'd remain friends, and she had "plausible deniability" to preserve her dignity.

Jonny said...

The friends speech is ok, as long as it is ment. (And why wouldn't it be ment?)

The "not a chance ever" speech does not always do yourself justice. People change over time. Girls especialy will change their opinion. I know this from experience.

If you don't give a good first impression (like me), then asking a girl on a date will almost always get a no answer if you don't know each other very well. A few years later it will be very different.

Swil said...

It's true - girls are much better at picking up the subtle hints, boys don't have to worry so much. Also it's often expected the guy will take the Big Step not the girl, so it's less likely to come to a head.

Also, guys aren't too stupid - generally the difference between an "I Just Want to Be Friends" as a quick escape versus them actually meaning it is fairly clear.

Jonny said...

But people should always mean what they say, otherwise its a lie. The 9th commandment. Why is it people can now lie?

Angus said...

Yeah, but there are ways of saying the truth that doesn't cause as much pain.

"I won't go out with you because I don't find you attractive and your personality is annoying. There is no chance for us EVER."

It might be the truth, but a bit of tact would get the same result with a lot less unnecessary pain.

CraigS said...

I recently was on the receiving end of this dialog (twice. huh.), but I didn't play the "friends" card

lol - you're fighting them off! Just buy a taser Laura ;-)

Swil said...

I didn't mean girls should lie just for an easy exit, but there's a big difference between a more distant "I don't want to be any more than friends with you" and "You are actually a close friend and I don't want it to be any more than that".

Being 'friends' is a loose concept, there's a lot of different levels. One of them is "I will socialise with you in groups." You can still say you only want to be friends when you don't want to get any closer than that and it's not lying. No need to get hung up on the 'friend' word.

Actually lying about it would be the girl crapping on about how much she values the friendship and how she doesn't want to ruin what they have etc etc cliche cliche.

CraigS said...

Yes, and the "friends speech" opens you up to the classic counter-move -

"Oh that's fine. Let's go to the movies as friends then, no problem."

ckjolly said...

This guy isn't looking for friendship, tho.

He desires a relationship that will one day lead to marriage. And having "girl friends" doesn't fit with marriage.

Mike doesn't have girl friends that he goes to movies with or catches up with over a cuppa.

How can he be FRIENDLY, but make it clear that FRIENDS isn't what he's after.

Laura said...

Is that one you've used, Craig? ;)

Jonny, I think people (girls especially maybe, being more emotionally complex people) generally have a good idea of whether or not there's a chance in the future of their feelings changing toward someone. Stranger things have happened, but I don't necessarily think it's wise to say, "I don't have feelings for you, but maybe someday..." If that happens, it's a nice surprise, but I think it's better to make a pretty clear statement that includes the future just so you don't end up with a someone calling you once a month wondering if someday might just be today!!

michael jensen said...

Trouble is, there is a kind of girl who is too kind. Or, who sees it as her responsibility to care for the guy she just turned down...and they are the girls who end up with messy stalker-type situations...and, as a pastor, the situation where the 'just friends' speech turns into stalking is a bummer to untangle. I have had to make more than one 'back off, will ya buddy' phone call...

CraigS said...

Sad MJ, but you're right. Some guys think "Friends? Cool - that's a start!"

Laura said...

My favorite all-time article tells ladies not to feel compelled to list every good quality, emphasize how flattering the advances are, etc.: "What is he? A puppy who needs a 'good boy' and a pat on the head? ... You are not the patron saint of turndowns." The whole article really cuts through the b.s., and in fact I would recommend the article to this guy, Stine -- it's the "You're a great guy, but..." one.

Angus said...

He desires a relationship that will one day lead to marriage. And having "girl friends" doesn't fit with marriage. Mike doesn't have girl friends that he goes to movies with or catches up with over a cuppa.

This may completely be a tangent, and Mike is of course entitled to do whatever he likes, but in my situation...

As a guy who has a lot of female friends, and at least one very close female friend who I share a lot with, I would expect to still catch up with her after I'm married. I accept that my friendships with women would probably be somewhat decreased - that's fair enough. But this is one of my very best friends.

I would think catching up with a good friend of the opposite sex, as long as you and your partner trusted each other, wouldn't be a problem. Of course, it all depends on the particular couple and what everyone is comfortable with I suppose.

tangent over!

CraigS said...

at least one very close female friend who I share a lot with

Well, if you are at all attracted to her, maybe you should think about...

ckjolly said...

Angus, I read that and so many red flags fly up ...

i believe that generally it is not so much a matter of trusting one's partner as it is a matter of wisdom.

Angus said...

Well, if you are at all attracted to her, maybe you should think about...

Haha! Her dad would love that. No, we work well as friends. Maybe it's because we went out in grade 10, or maybe it's because we're very very similar, but it's not on the cards.

Guys and girls can be good friends without any unresolved sexual tension. In my opinion anyway. I'm sure someone has an alternative view?

Angus said...

Angus, I read that and so many red flags fly up ... I believe that generally it is not so much a matter of trusting one's partner as it is a matter of wisdom.

Sorry, this wasn't there when I commented before.

I understand the wisdom aspect. But if there is no chance of someone straying - including emotionally - what's the issue? And, I guess I'm assuming here that my wife would know my friends as well. Given that my best friends mean a lot to me, I'm sure she'd want to meet them. Just as I'd love to get to know her friends.

Of course, I might feel different about it when I'm married and will be insanely jealous at the thought of my wife catching up with another man. But I'd like to hope that I won't. I guess there's a lot we don't know.

Swil said...

Yes Angus, there is a lot we don't know. Scientists maintain the translation was lost, centuries ago...

It is a matter of wisdom. But not in the sense that "cross gender friendships when one of the people is married = UNWISE". Ultimately for a married person their relationship with their spouse is their primary one (below God of course...). A friendship that actively threatened that would be a bad thing.

But why is that limited to cross-gender friendships? UST* is not the only element that can make a friendship dangerous to a married couple. Does this mean the couple should not have any friends outside the relationship, because it might be dangerous? Of course not. It just requires wisdom, spent on a per-friendship level rather than on a blanket rule level.

If a friendship between a married person and a person of the opposite sex has UST building up then yeah, probably a good idea to back away from that one. But there's no need to maim a friendship just because you're not the same sex.

Swil said...

oh and forgot to add my footnote:
*UST = Unresolved Sexual Tension. For examples, see early X Files & Lois & Clark or pretty much any teen drama.

Angus said...

Christine, I'm sorry if I've hijacked your post a bit, but I'm busy procrastinating from work, and you post on such interesting topics!

I wonder if this is more acceptable. Is it more okay for a husband to hang out with his wife's best friend? Because her allegiance is to her friend (the wife), not him. She has her interests at heart. Whereas a husband's female friend does not have that allegiance to the wife, and therefore has the husband's interests at heart.

In my opinion, it is important for friends to get to know both halves of a couple. That way they fully understand the impact of any actions that might harm that couple.

Okay, so, totally off topic. How can this guy make the girl like him? I've only seen it happen on very very rare occasions. He has to be patient through all the pain, all the time she spends with other guys, and hope that she finally realises that she won't find better elsewhere and settles for the one who has shown her consistency and love regardless of how she's treated him. That's how I've seen it work. Other than that, I'm out of ideas.

Swil said...

Indeed, if this guy is still keen, it's time call on the services of the hard-working Larry Longhaul. He's got a proven track record.

RodeoClown said...

Hey Angus,
I think that whether the friend is your own or your wife's, meeting them alone is probably not in either of your best interests.

I had several really good friends who were (and still are!) girls, but when I got married, I made a conscious decision not to maintain the same level of friendship, because even though you may be 'just friends', it can still cause jealousy in your spouse, and that UST can build up based on proximity.

I've actually got more male friends now that I'm married than I ever had before - and I think that's due to an active pursuit of guys to be friends with rather than girls.

ckjolly said...

Topic of just friends for married people has moved here

(That one's for you, Angus)

No problem making friendships with one's spouse's friends ... just not independent of the spouse.

BSJ-rom said...

What's the difference between Larry Longhaul and Stalker Steve?

Jonny said...

"Oh that's fine. Let's go to the movies as friends then, no problem."

I think this is fine and I think they should do this, in a group of other people. It maybe difficult, but sometimes I think it is important to try and maintain some contact (within a group) to help smooth things over. Asking a girl out is stressfull, the rejection is painfull. It should not be a time to run away, but time to have a party and get over it.

CraigS said...

How can this guy make the girl like him? I've only seen it happen on very very rare occasions.

Generally it is pretty hopeless at this stage of the game - ie. it's got to "lets just be friends".

There are two changes he might make that could spark some interest on her part -

1. Ignore her
2. Become awesome

Hanging around her for a long time showing you are a *really nice guy* is generally not a successful strategy in my observation.

CraigS said...

What's the difference between Larry Longhaul and Stalker Steve?

Steve has an outstanding AVO...

BSJ-rom said...

Right. I was wondering about that...

Jonny said...

A restaining order is fairly easy to get. I think an AVO or something like that may indicate the nature of both people involved as much as it does about the guy. Not the most Christian way to go about things either. Yes I have been threatened with a restraining order, but I havn't ever got one.

Angus said...

There are two changes he might make that could spark some interest on her part -
1. Ignore her
2. Become awesome

You are correct. Choice two is preferrable, because that way if she doesn't take notice, another girl will. Hopefully one he likes.

Hanging around her for a long time showing you are a *really nice guy* is generally not a successful strategy in my observation.

I've seen it work once (spectacularly). Unfortunately it is the exception to the rule. Amazingly gorgeous and popular girl, married her best friend because he was the only one she could trust. He stuck by her through all her sucky boyfriends and ups and downs, and eventually she realised that he was the one for her. Great story. One in a million though.

CraigS said...

I've seen it work once (spectacularly).

Wow, that is a great story.

To be honest, I *have* seen Larry Longhaul work a couple of times. But in most instances he wastes years of his life for no gain...

CraigS said...

because that way if she doesn't take notice, another girl will.

Yeah, far easier to till fresh ground rather than try and revive a "just be friends" situation.

Lizzie said...

I've used the line "let's continue being friends" before. Each instance I have meant it and each instance we have continued to remain friends. (sometimes though the level of friendship has been toned down) Naturally though on most cases there is a period of distance to get over any weirdness.
If a guy asks a girl out and she turns him down (or vice versa)should they both pretend that they were never friends just because there is no chance of a relationship!? Seems kinda silly and makes male/female friendships seem only for the purpose of finding a spouse!
The phrase however is over-done and sounds lame. However if that friendship is important and valued by me I would risk sounding lame to make sure that the friendship was maintained. Main thing I guess is to be considerate, honest (not brutely)and allow some time. It's never going to be a pleasant thing to turn or be turned down!

DJP said...

Having been "Jeffed" (JFed) many times in my yoot, I have one "do," and one very emphatic "don't":

Do take her at her word.
Don't make yourself pathetic. Move along.

Anonymous said...

Lizzie makes a good point. I get along well with all my ex-girlfriends (bar one) although I wouldn't say I was close to them or could be close to them. (I'm happily married now)

Not that I'd be tempted to do anything dodgy but I know myself well enough to know not to trust myself in some situations to not be flirty.

I always talk to my wife about the girls I meet and know and make sure she knows them and knows that she's the apple of my eye.

If you think this sounds prudish dear reader realise that better men and women than yourself have fallen in this area.

Felicity said...

When meant honestly I think the friends line has some merit but I don't think it should be used as a stand alone line and needs context. Do you want some time to think about the question and 'just be friends' is the first thing that pops out of your head in the shock, or do you want to get to know the person better before thinking about a pursuing anything more than friendship or is a genuine I want to remain friends. I think either way though we need to be showing our brothers in Christ that we appreciate them being bold enough and risking rejection to ask the question.

The women also needs to realise that because of the risk the man has taken and upon being rejected, if friendship continues it will probably look different.

My advise to the man is to take the women at her word. Given his desire to pursue more than friendship he may or may not be able to stay friends in a group setting. Obviously he sees something in this person to have asked the question so I would advise him to continue to pray about the matter and try to leave it in God's hands.

ckjolly said...

a "just friends" sample chapter from marriable

kat said...

I really like what you've said, Felicity about taking the woman at her word. (whether the 'just friends' speech was honest, or just a cover)

Just say that the girl in question isn't really sure about how she feels, but it definitely isn't great timing to move forward, by taking her at her word it's best if the guy moves forward and just allows things to be as they are from situation to situation. (meaning, whether they can stay friends or need to distance, ignoring the emotional tension can be a great help) it allows respect for both parties.

I had an odd situation once, where I'd been spending some time with a guy and was having dinner at his place (assuming just a friends thing) and at the end of the evening I'd accepted another invitation to go out to dinner.

I was keen just to hang out and get to know him, never too sure of anything else, but happy not to go in any direction than getting to know a friend.

I didn't pick up the hints, so before I left his place, he made known his keeness for something more than friendship and I gave a 'just friends speech'. I wasn't sure whether we should continue on the arranged dinner date and he said he was hoping we could still do that.

I was really nervous and wasn't sure what to do and postponed once, but couldn't shake him so I ended up going out to dinner with the guy. He was extremely respectful and diffused the akwardness - we had a great night out. We didn't see as much of each other after that, but going out together after a kind of rejection actually helped to diffuse the 'not sure what to do' kind of weirdness.

It takes a real man with as much respect for himself as the female to be able to have that kind of honor and forwardness. I'd say that any female is willing to honor a guy who doesn't flee at a friends speech.

CraigS said...

I'd say that any female is willing to honor a guy who doesn't flee at a friends speech.

Honor - but not date... ;-)

Jonny said...

Any female that gives the friends speech, should then be a friend.
To me this is a fundamental thing that is not respected in books/blogs, christian or otherwise.

CraigS said...

Any female that gives the friends speech, should then be a friend.

Well, the guy can't just turn off his feelings. Perhaps if she were a "real friend" she'd give him some space...

adele said...

Not many of you would even know me but would really like to leave a comment about this subject.

I believe that no man or woman should date until he or she is ready to pursue a relationship for marriage. If a person in not ready in themselves for the commitment of marriage then he/she has no right to date that person. The only reason for dating would then be extremely selfish, using the other person and playing with fireworks (don't know where I got the fireworks from), and thus a SIN.
Yet if he/she is ready to pursue a relationship for marriage with that person and does date, yet finds out they are not right, thus breaking up. It is NOT wrong in God's eyes.
SO if a girl is trying to walk a Godly life and can see that a guy is interested, making moves or maybe even asked her out, and she MAY FEEL attracted to him BUT does NOT know him very well. WHAT THEN is she to say to him EXCEPT that she feels that all she can be before God is a FRIEND and "just a friend".
That being friends is the only way she will see if she COULD pursue a relationship for marriage with that guy.
If a girl cannot say "lets just be friends" to a guy then does that mean that the "undecided 20 year old" should either DATE THE GUY without knowing him OR tell him he is to leave you alone! ARE THEY THE 2 OPTIONS!? ONE is a messing around and playing with someones feelings and the OTHER is just plain lying.

Just because "lets be friends" has been abused, does not mean that people who would legitimately need to use it should be criticized.

Your thoughts??
A 20 year old named Adele. =)

BSJ-rom said...

One thing that I don't understand is why the assumption is that you should be ready to marry someone before going out with them. This is completely stupid and makes life very confusing. (I'll cover my back and say there are good reasons for certain things...)

There seems to be this confusing thing about wanting to get to know someone before going out with them, when, you would think, that period of dating would be ideal for that.

Of course, there are several problems with this.

First, there is the external pressure. In our Christian circles, as soon as it is official that two people are going out, the question is asked "when's the wedding?"

If I started going out with someone, believe it or not, I would not be prepared to marry them then and there. I'm just a commitmentphobe, I know...

The second and biggest problem is the fact that you're putting yourself out there for so much heartache if you go from one lot of dating to the next.

I think this needs to be governed by discernment. Picking up on whether someone has the character traits that you desire happens pretty quickly (unless they don't have them, in which case you'll be watching for a while). On top of that, some people you just get on really well with, and with others it's a battle. That's all without really "knowing" the other person.

Anonymous said...

bsj-rom, you are misrepresenting Adele's point about only dating if you want to PURSUE a relationship for marriage. This is a deliberate (and godly) approach based on an attitude rather than being "ready" to marry them.

But i agree with you about the external pressures of dating in christian circles...

Adele, i see your point of view by creating the 2 impossible options and then going for the "in-between" response, but my questions to you are:

1. How on earth is the guy to know that the situation is as you describe it? By giving the "just friends" response, a girl is most likely to convince the guy she is NOT interested.

2. In the girl's efforts to "be sure how deep the pool is before she dives in" she may actually be cutting herself off from opportunities to get to know the guy to the extent where she feels that "pursuing marriage" is a prudent move.

BSJ-rom said...

Anon, I must dare to object - it's just that I probably stated it like the true drama-queen that I am...

But I think you managed to express the point I was trying (but obviously failing) to make in the final point you make.

But let my try to restate my point more clearly:

Adele writes "SO if a girl is trying to walk a Godly life and can see that a guy is interested, making moves or maybe even asked her out, and she MAY FEEL attracted to him BUT does NOT know him very well. WHAT THEN is she to say to him EXCEPT that she feels that all she can be before God is a FRIEND and "just a friend"."

It is because of this that I dramatically claim that there is an assumption that "you should be ready to marry someone before going out with them". Admittedly the point is over-the-top, but it is not, I argue, a misrepresentation of the argument presented. The crux of my argument is that the "dating" period is a wonderful opportunity to get to know that guy for whom she has feelings but does not know very well.

"BUT does NOT know him very well" has not been defined at all. I wouldn't be to keen on the idea of being asked/asking out somebody who I knew nothing about - I don't know what they're relationship with God is like, how they treat others, etc, etc.

But, I dare say, you wouldn't have feelings for someone, nor would that someone have the opportunity to show they are "interested, making moves or maybe even [ask] her out" without knowing that basic stuff (unless we're talking about getting chatted up at a pub or in a club).

Yes, pursuing a relationship for the purpose of marriage is a Godly approach, but I would be hesitant to judge (in particular) school yard sweethearts saying that they are rebelling against God because they are in that situation. But most other times, yes, it would be a tad dubious.

Laura said...

BSJ -- I still think you're misunderstanding Adele's point. I think what she's saying is that a person should be ready for marriage in general, to someone before they date anyone. Not that they should know that this particular person is "the one" before they go on the first date, but that a person shouldn't date at all unless he or she is ready for marriage in general.

I think it is wise to have a few broad standards for people one dates -- godly, growing, attractive -- which align with the standards one has for a future spouse. It would be pretty foolish to go out even once with someone who was, say, Muslim, wouldn't it, if one of your basic requirements was that the person share your faith?

Adele, I disagree with you about a woman's intentions when she gives the "just friends" speech. Why would she mislead the guy by saying "I just want to be friends" when what she means is "I'm attracted to and interested in you, but for some reason I don't think it's a good idea for us to date right now?" If that's what she means, she should say as much. You did make quite a bit of being "ready" for marriage -- what's the qualification for readiness in that circumstance?

In my opinion, if one is sexually mature (i.e., past puberty), desirous of marriage, and capable of gainful employment, there is no reason to prolong singleness if a godly and attractive person comes along! I would also include the accountability supplied by a church community in the equation. But if we all waited until we were completely ready -- until we felt competent for the trials and demands of married life -- I think only the most prideful and blinded to their own faults would ever get down the aisle. That is to say, nobody is ever "ready" for marriage!

Christine, don't you just love when a thread fires up again?

ckjolly said...

Adele, I'm right there with you on #1 and #2 but like the others stated, you do your position injustice and the godly man dishonor if you leave your speech at "just friends" without communicating the deep conviction behind that. By not expounding on your position, you may have lost the opportunity to know him more.

What man would not deeply respect and even admire you all the more if you told him,:

"I appreciate you and would love to get to know you more, however, I believe that this is not the time for me to enter a romantic relationship with you. But I am open to working towards that end."

adele said...

Dear Christine,
I know that the girl in this case did explain, in the best way she could, almost exactly what you have stated, including the statement that friendship was the most Godly thing to pursue at that time. It was the only fair and God glorifying way for her to get to know him better.
Should she be judged for that?
I don't wish to, and I don't see any more need to add further.
With love for you all,

ckjolly said...

This post/forum was not meant to be a place to judge the woman who desired friendship rather to help men know how to respond to rejection and/or a request for only friendship. I am sorry that it has become so, and I am sorry for the part I played in that whether it was judging her myself and/or allowing it to persist from others (sometimes unavoidable if one sleeps through the night only to find the reactions of others there).

My comments to you were meant to encourage you in your position on preparing for marriage.

I didn't have all the information so I wrongly assumed the young woman's response filling in all the blanks myself.

If she did as you suggest, she has nothing to be ashamed of and ought dismiss the criticisms as false because they are ill-informed.

BSJ-rom said...

I would add to Christine's comments that with all this stuff, most people are flapping around in the dark (I know I am) - getting things right, getting things wrong, laughing, crying and all the rest of it. I don't believe it would be right to condemn anyone however they acted (particularly as Adele has outlined, trying their darndest to be above reproach - I apologise for the lack of respect I have shown for someone who is trying to do that). People get hurt. People get into sticky situations. That's life. But in those sticky situations the thing I know that I value and respect most of all is somebody who's trying to honour God in everything they do.

wombat said...

hi all, wombat here! i spoke to both mike and ck jolly bout this on friday and had a bit of a think of the w/e bout it.

like some have already said, i think the 'just friends' line is fine if that's how ya feel. us fella's are pretty resilient bunch and even if it does hurt for a bit, we'll move on. girls shouldn't try to protect guys too much (be tactful obviously) - being honest with us is a sign of respect.

its helpful to remember that regardless of our marital status, Christian men and women are brothers and sisters (1 Tim 5). guys, we have an awesome responsbility for treating our sisters with absolute purity. what a privelidged call God has given us!

finally, i liked what adele had to say. if a guy asks a girl out and she's not against the idea, but not sure either, tell him exactly that! us guys appreciate the honesty (well i do). i'd also suggest intentionally spending more time together to test the water.

but lads, in this period its important we keep our feelings in check. if after a period of time, the las isn't keen to pursue the relationship, you don't want to have to deal with feelings and emotions that grew way past where the relationship actually was.

wombat signing out!!!

Anonymous said...

Maybe all the girls could write out their "friends" speech and the guys can shop around and see which one they like the best, before asking the girl.